068 – A 9 to 5 Salary from An Etsy Shop with Angela Lee
Angela Lee opened her first Etsy shop in 2008 to sell simple jewelry that she created at her desk while working at a domestic violence hotline.
Over the next few years, she developed her skills as an artisan. As her customer base grew, her hobby developed into a full-time business.
Today, Brightsmith sells custom, handmade jewelry to people seeking effortlessly wearable pieces with an emphasis on craftsmanship.
She still also works as a public interest attorney, serving Austin Texas’ thriving community of artists and musicians.
Business Inspiration
How her jewelry business “happened.” [4:22]
The beginning of selling online [6:42]
Candle Flickering Moments
Adjusting to seasonal lulls and what to do to make that time productive [19:01]
Business Building Insights
The background of a business was a surprise attraction for Angela [8:58]
Why Angela shut down her shop for two years! [12:44]
Managing your business growth – a cautionary tale [14:14]
Reopening the shop full time [16:13]
Photography tips and the importance of white balance [23:35]
Rebranding and packaging [25:12]
Etsy Specific Information
Etsy support systems [9:44]
Advice for starting up your Etsy shop [10:51]
Etsy order process flow [26:30]
Success Trait
Angela is a natural problem solver and is also very resourceful. She believes there is a solution to every problem.
Productivity/Lifestyle Tool
Craftybase – Inventory and bookkeeping for handmade sellers
Valuable Book
The Complete Metalsmith by Tim McCreight
Contact Links
If you found value in this podcast, make sure to subscribe and leave a review in Apple Podcasts or Google Podcasts. That helps us spread the word to more makers just like you. Thanks! Sue
Transcript
Gift biz on wrapped episode 68,
Speaker:Within six months from that it was out earning what I
Speaker:was making as an attorney.
Speaker:Hi, this is John Lee Dumas of entrepreneur on fire,
Speaker:and you're listening to the gift of biz unwrapped.
Speaker:And now it's time to light it up.
Speaker:Welcome to gift biz,
Speaker:unwrapped your source for industry specific insights and advice to develop
Speaker:and grow your business.
Speaker:And now here's your host,
Speaker:Sue Monheit.
Speaker:Hi there.
Speaker:I'm Sue and welcome to the gift biz unwrapped package.
Speaker:I asked whether you own a brick and mortar shop sell
Speaker:online or are just getting started.
Speaker:You'll discover new insight to gain traction and to grow your
Speaker:business. And today I am so thrilled to have Angela Lee
Speaker:with us.
Speaker:Angela is an attorney and a Goldsmith living in Austin,
Speaker:Texas. She opened her first Etsy shop in 2008 to sell
Speaker:simple jewelry that she created at her desk while working at
Speaker:a domestic violence hotline over the next few years,
Speaker:she developed her skills as an artist,
Speaker:as her customer base grew,
Speaker:her hobby developed into a full-time business.
Speaker:Bright Smith sells custom handmade jewelry to people seeking effortlessly wearable
Speaker:pieces with an emphasis on craftsmanship.
Speaker:She also works as a public interest attorney serving Austin's thriving
Speaker:community of artists and musicians.
Speaker:I am so excited to talk with you,
Speaker:Angela, welcome To the show you I'm glad to be here.
Speaker:Is there anything else you think we should add onto that
Speaker:intro before we get started?
Speaker:No, that that pretty much sums it up.
Speaker:I like to start out by having you describe a motivational
Speaker:candle, it gives us a subtle look into what you're all
Speaker:about. So if you were to describe a motivational candle,
Speaker:what color is it and what would be the quote on
Speaker:your candle?
Speaker:Well, my candle would be gray.
Speaker:I like the color gray because I've always been more interested
Speaker:in, what's not there than what's there.
Speaker:And I think gray to me represents a possibility.
Speaker:The quote on it would be one by the furniture designer,
Speaker:Charles Ames,
Speaker:which is innovate as a last resort.
Speaker:Those familiar with Charles and Ray Ames work know that he
Speaker:was incredibly innovative,
Speaker:mid century modern furniture designer.
Speaker:And what that quote means to me is that it reminds
Speaker:me that I'm never the first to encounter a problem.
Speaker:No matter what challenges I'm facing,
Speaker:there is always a system in place to address that problem.
Speaker:And I can build upon those systems to better what I'm
Speaker:doing or to solve my challenge at hand.
Speaker:And from a design sense,
Speaker:I've always been a big proponent of learning to do things
Speaker:the right way before doing it my own way.
Speaker:I'm very interested in making sure that I have the correct
Speaker:foundation for innovation.
Speaker:Also since the quote would be on a candle.
Speaker:I think it'd be really interesting to see that candle as
Speaker:it burns down as a constant reminder of how often you
Speaker:find yourself at the point where all it says is last
Speaker:resort. That is so unique.
Speaker:I love the explanation in that whole thing that you just
Speaker:said, Angela,
Speaker:for a couple of reasons,
Speaker:just by you saying,
Speaker:if someone else has been there before you kind of as
Speaker:a stress reliever,
Speaker:it's like,
Speaker:okay, I can figure this out because someone else has to,
Speaker:someone else has figured out whatever the thing is that you're
Speaker:encountering and in terms of foundations and learning from other people,
Speaker:and then applying your own spin,
Speaker:it's kind of what we're doing here today,
Speaker:because we want all our listeners to hear your story.
Speaker:You are providing a foundation for them to build upon because
Speaker:let's face it.
Speaker:We don't all have to reinvent the wheel from the beginning.
Speaker:We're much further along if we can pick up what other
Speaker:people already know and then add our spin on top of
Speaker:that. Absolutely.
Speaker:And it's so much easier when you accept and realize that
Speaker:almost everything under the sun has been done already,
Speaker:but not your way.
Speaker:Exactly. There's always a way to build upon it or improve
Speaker:upon it,
Speaker:but without acknowledging the traditional way or the foundational way,
Speaker:it's difficult to distinguish yourself.
Speaker:Totally agree with you there.
Speaker:I'm going to take you back in time now to 2000,
Speaker:I guess it would be seven.
Speaker:And I want you to start going back and thinking about
Speaker:what it was like and give us the story of how
Speaker:you decided,
Speaker:you know,
Speaker:what I am going to transition from this beautiful jewelry that
Speaker:I'm already making and actually open an Etsy shop.
Speaker:So how did you just,
Speaker:just make that first decision in the very beginning?
Speaker:It's kind of funny 'cause I,
Speaker:I don't feel like in the,
Speaker:especially in the beginning that anything was driven by decision,
Speaker:it was more just kind of happenstance.
Speaker:And additionally,
Speaker:I never really set out to have a jewelry business in
Speaker:the beginning.
Speaker:It was just something that I was doing and kind of
Speaker:the business.
Speaker:And came later after I discovered that it was a viable
Speaker:business, you know,
Speaker:there was a point when I decided that I was going
Speaker:to develop it into a business,
Speaker:but that was much,
Speaker:much later.
Speaker:So in 2007,
Speaker:I was a fledgling brand new baby attorney,
Speaker:and I'd always wanted to work in public interest.
Speaker:So I was working as an attorney on a domestic violence
Speaker:hotline. And if you can imagine what that's like,
Speaker:you essentially spend eight hours a day talking to people on
Speaker:the worst day of their lives.
Speaker:Domestic violence survivors are incredibly admirable,
Speaker:but also an incredibly challenging group.
Speaker:I remember there was a study that came out a few
Speaker:years ago that basically estimated the burnout rate of hotline workers
Speaker:at about 18 months.
Speaker:So right when I was nearing the 18 month Mark,
Speaker:I was really starting to feel the stress of being yelled
Speaker:at for eight hours a day.
Speaker:And so I was looking for things to do while I
Speaker:was on the phone that would relieve my stress.
Speaker:And I figured,
Speaker:well, my hands are free because I'm using this headset.
Speaker:So let's see what I can do with my hands.
Speaker:It was winter time.
Speaker:So I actually started by knitting.
Speaker:So I was knitting an amazing out of things at my
Speaker:desk and I wasn't even making anything.
Speaker:I was just kind of knitting straight lines and big pieces
Speaker:of cloth.
Speaker:And basically,
Speaker:you know,
Speaker:I discovered that I was a terrible knitter.
Speaker:So I kind of drew upon another craft that I'd always
Speaker:been interested in since I was little,
Speaker:I used to string beads together to make necklaces and things
Speaker:like that.
Speaker:And so I thought,
Speaker:well, that's something I can do without thinking too much.
Speaker:I can do it at my desk.
Speaker:And so I dragged up all my old craft supplies and
Speaker:I was making all sorts of weird things with no intent
Speaker:of making anything,
Speaker:even that looked attractive.
Speaker:I was making things like chain mail from straight pieces of
Speaker:wire. And pretty soon I actually started making things that I
Speaker:thought, wow,
Speaker:this is pretty cool.
Speaker:And maybe I should kind of explore this further.
Speaker:So is that when you started your Etsy shop?
Speaker:No. No,
Speaker:not yet still.
Speaker:So I started making different things and I assume became interested
Speaker:in developing my craft.
Speaker:I was like,
Speaker:well, I'm making these same things over and over again.
Speaker:So I started learning about different techniques,
Speaker:which of course required investment in tools and different materials.
Speaker:When I decided to develop my craft,
Speaker:that's when I decided to start selling online because I thought,
Speaker:well, this is a good way to kind of subsidize the
Speaker:craft from what I earn online.
Speaker:And I expect it to be like maybe $10 a week
Speaker:or something like that.
Speaker:What I make online,
Speaker:I can use to put back into materials.
Speaker:So that's when I started the Etsy shop.
Speaker:And at the same time,
Speaker:I was also producing so much jewelry that I was literally
Speaker:giving it away.
Speaker:I was basically donating all of my pieces to silent auctions
Speaker:and things like that.
Speaker:And even that,
Speaker:I eventually outgrew to the point where I had so much
Speaker:stuff and there were only so many silent auctions per year.
Speaker:I just started listing it on my Etsy store.
Speaker:So your goal initially was really just to reimburse yourself for
Speaker:the materials you were putting into the craft.
Speaker:Yeah. Basically just subsidize my hobby.
Speaker:And then Why did you choose Etsy versus any other platform
Speaker:selling your pieces on eBay or consignment at local shops?
Speaker:Whatever. I hadn't Given much thought to it really.
Speaker:I had coincidentally at the same time,
Speaker:heard about it on NPR and I thought I would give
Speaker:it a look.
Speaker:And within about two months it was just really simple to
Speaker:set up a shop.
Speaker:So I was like,
Speaker:why not?
Speaker:And I went And with it.
Speaker:So then you set up your shop.
Speaker:So you already had all the inventory obviously,
Speaker:cause it had been a hobby really.
Speaker:And then you started putting your pieces up and what was
Speaker:the result Slow going for a little while,
Speaker:but pretty much within the first few months,
Speaker:without any attention to anything like search engine optimization or anything
Speaker:like that within a few months I was seeing at least
Speaker:weekly sales.
Speaker:Wow. Were you so excited when you got that first sale?
Speaker:I was totally excited.
Speaker:And the woman who purchased from me ended up continuing to
Speaker:purchase from me.
Speaker:So it was kind of an early lesson in customer retention
Speaker:and customer acquisition and things like that.
Speaker:So it was really fun.
Speaker:And one thing that I didn't expect to like so much,
Speaker:one thing that I really learned from Etsy is that I
Speaker:really enjoyed running a business.
Speaker:Interesting. Okay.
Speaker:So carry on with that.
Speaker:So what was it that you learned about running a business
Speaker:that you started seeing you had a passion for?
Speaker:Well, once I realized that things like,
Speaker:you know,
Speaker:search engine optimization and photography and marketing and merchandising,
Speaker:once I kind of learned that these things existed and started
Speaker:learning about them,
Speaker:you know,
Speaker:I've always been so drawn to new challenges and things that
Speaker:I've never experienced that learning about all these things and kind
Speaker:of driving myself to master them became really fun.
Speaker:And I've really learned that online selling is only a small
Speaker:percentage about the product you actually make.
Speaker:And the majority of success can be attributed to just running
Speaker:the business,
Speaker:Going to capture your knowledge.
Speaker:Does Etsy have the learning base or where were you going
Speaker:to, if you'd never been exposed to merchandising or SEO or
Speaker:any of that before,
Speaker:how were you getting your information?
Speaker:Early days?
Speaker:They have a blog where they post tips for sellers and
Speaker:that was a good resource in the early days.
Speaker:And now I am a frequent Terry of the Etsy forums
Speaker:and it's a very supportive group of sellers who will share
Speaker:knowledge or come with problems or,
Speaker:you know,
Speaker:any of the challenges that they're facing.
Speaker:And it's the closest thing that anyone who sells online from
Speaker:home will have to coworkers.
Speaker:Wonderful. So are you suggesting then that at T has been
Speaker:all around turn key opportunity for someone not only to start
Speaker:putting their product up like you were doing because I'm understanding
Speaker:now that it is really easy to set up the shop,
Speaker:but then also continued learning through the forums and everything.
Speaker:Absolutely. It's so easy that sometimes it's even a detriment.
Speaker:I see a lot of times people will kind of start
Speaker:before they're ready.
Speaker:So I don't want to make it sound like you don't
Speaker:have to do your homework if you are going into it
Speaker:with the intent of it being a full-fledged business one day.
Speaker:But it,
Speaker:it is probably the easiest platform out there.
Speaker:What would you say are things that people need to have
Speaker:prepared before they get started?
Speaker:I think it's always a good idea to start with some
Speaker:sort of a brand in mind.
Speaker:I think one of the biggest mistakes that early sellers make
Speaker:is that they go in without kind of a direction and
Speaker:end up with a shop that's full of items that are
Speaker:maybe, you know,
Speaker:have completely different styles of photography or the products don't really
Speaker:make sense in align.
Speaker:And then what happens with that is that they have this
Speaker:developed shop,
Speaker:but then they end up having to,
Speaker:for example,
Speaker:take all their photos over or have to remake all their
Speaker:prototypes to fit in with a specific brand or a line
Speaker:or know philosophy.
Speaker:Okay. That's really good advice.
Speaker:So let me repeat that and emphasize it for everybody.
Speaker:If you're looking at setting up a shop and we talk
Speaker:about this for not just an Etsy,
Speaker:but any company you want to do some initial planning,
Speaker:what is it that you're presenting to the market?
Speaker:What is your product as Angela's talking about right now,
Speaker:and then also,
Speaker:how are you putting your brand around it?
Speaker:What do you stand for?
Speaker:What's the image you're trying to create that comes out in
Speaker:the photography that you're doing,
Speaker:and you want everything to be looking consistent.
Speaker:You might have an Etsy platform,
Speaker:but you might also have a Facebook page or other types
Speaker:of social media or even an additional website.
Speaker:Or if you're a local retail shop,
Speaker:you might already have signage in your shop.
Speaker:You want all of that to be looking consistent across platform,
Speaker:but to start and to think about it before you put
Speaker:up your site on Etsy,
Speaker:as Angela saying is a big point of emphasis so that
Speaker:people understand what you're all about.
Speaker:You know,
Speaker:there's no,
Speaker:there's the whole adage.
Speaker:You'll have to tell me if you agree with this.
Speaker:Angela is that if you're everything to everybody,
Speaker:you're nothing to anybody.
Speaker:You know,
Speaker:you have to decide what you're standing for in terms of
Speaker:products and image.
Speaker:Exactly. All right.
Speaker:So let's carry on.
Speaker:So you were getting your first sales and things are moving
Speaker:and you saw that you liked business.
Speaker:What happened next?
Speaker:After about two years when sales got very regular and I
Speaker:was still had the full time job as an attorney and
Speaker:I was essentially spending all of my free time filling orders
Speaker:every weekend,
Speaker:every evening,
Speaker:late into the night,
Speaker:I actually eventually ended up closing my shop because it got
Speaker:too busy.
Speaker:Oh wow.
Speaker:You can just temporarily shut it down.
Speaker:Right. So you can catch up.
Speaker:You can,
Speaker:Was that a turning point?
Speaker:Both in,
Speaker:in my career as an attorney and,
Speaker:and kind of in my home life,
Speaker:I was facing some challenges.
Speaker:So I shut down my store for two years.
Speaker:Oh, wow.
Speaker:And did you have it,
Speaker:so was it still existing on Etsy?
Speaker:It was just turned off or something.
Speaker:Yeah. It's still existed online.
Speaker:I just didn't have Any listings.
Speaker:Okay. You might see that as the failure of the business,
Speaker:if you're concentrating on the business,
Speaker:but at the time for me,
Speaker:my priorities were kind of different.
Speaker:You know,
Speaker:I'd only been an attorney for a few years.
Speaker:And so I still wanted to concentrate on that.
Speaker:I was just reading an article last night.
Speaker:It was an excellent article.
Speaker:It was in a Seattle paper about a crafter whose business
Speaker:kind of took off overnight.
Speaker:And she ended up facing some personal issues and her business
Speaker:tanked because of it in a way that was just spectacular.
Speaker:She, she takes spectacularly basically for client base,
Speaker:ended up crucifying her online.
Speaker:And she is now in a situation where she can probably
Speaker:never reopen again because she's kind of lost the reputation that
Speaker:she built.
Speaker:I think that's a very strong cautionary tale that you have
Speaker:to constantly keep on top of things and manage your growth.
Speaker:And if you find your self in a place where you
Speaker:think you might actually be damaging your business,
Speaker:by not keeping up with the growth,
Speaker:then you might need to stop and reassess.
Speaker:And I think that's a unique challenge of our listeners because
Speaker:we're all crafters handmade or for the most part,
Speaker:you know,
Speaker:some people are purchasing other people's products,
Speaker:but the more business you then get the more work you're
Speaker:making for yourself because you have to produce the products and
Speaker:then also put them up on the at T site.
Speaker:And then at the end,
Speaker:fill all the orders.
Speaker:So it is a juggling act I would suggest.
Speaker:Right. And I guess The point too is that you have
Speaker:to manage your growth.
Speaker:So many people are driven by,
Speaker:Oh, I'm making this many sales in so many days and
Speaker:they keep driving for that number.
Speaker:When that number is only one metric,
Speaker:the more important metric is how happy are your customers and
Speaker:how many of your customers can you retain?
Speaker:And you need to look at the reputation you're building.
Speaker:So it doesn't do any good to have 5,000
Speaker:sales in a year.
Speaker:If only 3000 of those customers are happy because eventually your
Speaker:business will fail.
Speaker:Right. And just like you were saying,
Speaker:then you shut down and really can't start up again,
Speaker:for sure under that brand name,
Speaker:possibly something different.
Speaker:You know,
Speaker:the person you were talking about,
Speaker:who you read about last night clearly can start up under
Speaker:a different name later,
Speaker:but they've lost all that.
Speaker:They worked so hard for,
Speaker:with the other brand.
Speaker:So, you know,
Speaker:taking a hiatus or backing off.
Speaker:And it sounds like Angela,
Speaker:let me,
Speaker:let me know if this is true,
Speaker:but with Etsy,
Speaker:given the fact that you can put up as many products
Speaker:as you want and or turn on and off the shop,
Speaker:you have some control over that.
Speaker:And your caution is don't try to grow so fast.
Speaker:You need to be able to plan for your growth.
Speaker:Exactly. And back to what I was saying about at the
Speaker:is almost easy to a detriment,
Speaker:Right? So you are growing,
Speaker:things are going well,
Speaker:you took a couple of years off because you felt that
Speaker:you needed to,
Speaker:as you were in that mix,
Speaker:what made you go back?
Speaker:So after a couple more years in public interest law,
Speaker:and I was still in the same field of domestic violence
Speaker:at this point,
Speaker:I think it was like four years into doing the same
Speaker:thing. Every day.
Speaker:I realized that I really just couldn't manage the stress very
Speaker:much longer.
Speaker:And it was time for me to find a different way
Speaker:to support myself for a little while.
Speaker:And I thought maybe I could do a mixed model where
Speaker:I would do law part-time.
Speaker:And I was only banking on what I'd been making from
Speaker:Etsy before,
Speaker:which was a part-time income.
Speaker:So I was like,
Speaker:well, there's no harm in just starting it back up to
Speaker:subsidize my income.
Speaker:I'll feel a little bit better,
Speaker:but ironic that Etsy was my backup plan to the law
Speaker:degree, but that's what ended up happening.
Speaker:Wow. You know,
Speaker:within a few months,
Speaker:business picked up to its previous level,
Speaker:which was much faster than I thought that would happen.
Speaker:And so I thought about,
Speaker:I wonder what would happen if I treated at CZI as
Speaker:a full-time job?
Speaker:And it was just kind of a,
Speaker:let's see what happens type of thing.
Speaker:So I spent a few days learning more in depth about
Speaker:optimizing the site and the tools that were at my disposal.
Speaker:And within six months from that,
Speaker:it was out earning what I was making as an attorney.
Speaker:Wow. Were you as surprised as I am?
Speaker:You know,
Speaker:that said I was a nonprofit attorney,
Speaker:so my wages were like astronomical or anything,
Speaker:you know,
Speaker:I was making about,
Speaker:you know,
Speaker:probably about a teacher salary,
Speaker:a little more than that.
Speaker:So it is a livable income.
Speaker:It's a comfortable income and yeah,
Speaker:it was,
Speaker:I was surprised and also kind of very proud of having
Speaker:surmounted that challenge.
Speaker:And I guess My surprise doesn't come in necessarily from the
Speaker:ability to attain that kind of income,
Speaker:but the speed at which you did it,
Speaker:you know,
Speaker:it came up pretty fast.
Speaker:Yeah. My,
Speaker:the big surprise that I'm constantly having is that my growth
Speaker:has always been faster than even what I've projected.
Speaker:I do a lot of projections and growth goals and the,
Speaker:you know,
Speaker:I've constantly exceeded them,
Speaker:which surprises me every time,
Speaker:Viewed it to the quality of your product or how you're
Speaker:promoting it,
Speaker:or what do you think that is?
Speaker:Sometimes I feel like I have no idea.
Speaker:My husband is good at reminding me that I'm constantly working,
Speaker:whether it's learning something new and a new way to do
Speaker:something a new way to promote something to market or merchandise,
Speaker:something, you know,
Speaker:I am always working on it and I do treat it
Speaker:like a full-time job.
Speaker:I've always treated it like a full-time job since I made
Speaker:that decision to make it.
Speaker:So that goes back to what you were talking about in
Speaker:the very beginning with your candle,
Speaker:you know,
Speaker:always building on the foundation and progressing.
Speaker:Right. Wonderful.
Speaker:All right.
Speaker:So this sounds fabulous.
Speaker:I love the story.
Speaker:Bring us to a time when it wasn't so good when
Speaker:you're saying to yourself,
Speaker:Oh my gosh,
Speaker:why did I ever start this in the first place?
Speaker:What was the challenge and how did you overcome the situation?
Speaker:That was definitely the nine months between when I reopened my
Speaker:Etsy store.
Speaker:And when I decided I could quit my day job online
Speaker:sales, any retail really is completely unpredictable.
Speaker:And until you're kind of used to those lulls and surges,
Speaker:it can be really,
Speaker:really just nerve wracking.
Speaker:You know,
Speaker:every time there was a lull in sales,
Speaker:I was convinced that I would never sell anything.
Speaker:Again. I was convinced that it was just over,
Speaker:this was a fluke and it's time to go back to
Speaker:getting a real job.
Speaker:So many of us go through this,
Speaker:it's like this for anyone in retail,
Speaker:especially in the beginning,
Speaker:it takes a while for you to learn that there are
Speaker:natural highs and lows.
Speaker:There are going to be natural,
Speaker:you know,
Speaker:slowdowns and natural surges that you can never really rely on
Speaker:something being consistent from day to day.
Speaker:What you really have to concentrate on is the month over
Speaker:month and year over year comparisons.
Speaker:So when you're getting into a,
Speaker:well, you just have to know that this too shall pass,
Speaker:but then now that you're at a full-time level with this,
Speaker:how do you plan for that financially?
Speaker:Well, I,
Speaker:I do try to save a large amount.
Speaker:You know,
Speaker:I'm making enough now that I can save at the level
Speaker:that I was saving when I had a traditional 401k and
Speaker:things like that.
Speaker:So I always say for those eventualities,
Speaker:but additionally,
Speaker:even the lulls now it's kind of so busy that the
Speaker:laws I'm kind of thankful for,
Speaker:because that's the time that you spend really building the business.
Speaker:You know,
Speaker:when you start contributing to its growth by developing new products
Speaker:or maybe re photographing remerchandising old products,
Speaker:All right.
Speaker:Gift biz listeners.
Speaker:I want you to remember what Angela just said here.
Speaker:You know,
Speaker:in the times when she's making a lot of money,
Speaker:she's putting some aside so saving for a rainy day,
Speaker:if you will,
Speaker:and not just going out and celebrating because sales were so
Speaker:great, you can do a little bit of that too,
Speaker:but always have the plan,
Speaker:especially for our industries,
Speaker:the ebb and flow,
Speaker:as we've been talking about,
Speaker:it's always good to make sure that you're planning.
Speaker:You're putting a little bit away just so you don't have
Speaker:that stressful time when things are down and,
Speaker:Oh my gosh,
Speaker:where are we going to get the money from?
Speaker:Just, it's better to plan when you're in the good times
Speaker:than try to be reaching for it when you're in the
Speaker:bad, bad or low,
Speaker:I maybe should say anything you would add to that Angela
Speaker:that sums it up really well.
Speaker:Okay. All right.
Speaker:So what types of things you're talking about SEO enhancement,
Speaker:but what types of things would you suggest to our listeners
Speaker:in terms of things that help you move the needle to
Speaker:bring in sales?
Speaker:I think the most important thing on Etsy,
Speaker:especially is going to be your merchandising,
Speaker:really photography is the number one thing that will either launch
Speaker:or kill your shop.
Speaker:When you're starting.
Speaker:As I mentioned before,
Speaker:you know,
Speaker:your actual product is only a very small part of the
Speaker:equation, and that's a very hard thing to accept at first,
Speaker:you know,
Speaker:a lot of people feel that,
Speaker:you know,
Speaker:whether it's true or not that they have this fantastic,
Speaker:amazing product that everyone will want.
Speaker:The problem is no one will know it if it's merchandise
Speaker:poorly. And so Give us a couple of tips for merchandising.
Speaker:Branding is very important.
Speaker:You want to remember that,
Speaker:you know,
Speaker:just like,
Speaker:like a examples from traditional advertising,
Speaker:that your product should be presented in a way that's aspirational.
Speaker:So for example,
Speaker:if you're selling wedding veils,
Speaker:you don't want them photographed on a black background,
Speaker:even though,
Speaker:you know,
Speaker:you might think,
Speaker:Oh, the black really makes the white pop.
Speaker:The problem is black.
Speaker:Isn't very bridle.
Speaker:So that would be a good example.
Speaker:Another thing is that you really have to keep in mind
Speaker:that the drawback of online selling is that the customer can't
Speaker:see or feel your products in person.
Speaker:So you have to be able to convey all of the
Speaker:virtues of your product in a photograph in a very few
Speaker:photographs. In fact,
Speaker:in five photographs,
Speaker:you have to capture what it is about your product,
Speaker:that, or its five best selling points and kind of in
Speaker:an environment that's going to be motivational for your shoppers or
Speaker:aspirational for your shoppers.
Speaker:And how do you feel about putting product in a lifestyle
Speaker:type photo,
Speaker:like rings on the hand of somebody or,
Speaker:you know,
Speaker:that kind of thing.
Speaker:Is it more on Etsy about the product specifically versus using
Speaker:the product?
Speaker:It can be absolutely.
Speaker:And unfortunately I'm actually not very good at the lifestyle marketing,
Speaker:but I have seen many shops that are excellent at it.
Speaker:And they are very,
Speaker:very successful.
Speaker:Tography you're suggesting make sure as your bridal example that you're
Speaker:merging colors or presenting the product in the right way,
Speaker:that matches what the mindset is of the person who's going
Speaker:to be buying it.
Speaker:Anything else in terms of lighting or set up or any
Speaker:other tips for us on that regard specifically with photography,
Speaker:If like me,
Speaker:you don't have any sort of background in photography.
Speaker:The easiest way to start is outdoor.
Speaker:Natural light is the easiest light to work with when you're
Speaker:doing photos or editing photos.
Speaker:A lot of people suggest light boxes,
Speaker:but I found the learning curve there even to be kind
Speaker:of steep.
Speaker:I do use them now,
Speaker:but it took me a couple of years to develop my
Speaker:photography skill to where my light box photos didn't look very
Speaker:artificial it.
Speaker:So in the very beginning,
Speaker:if you've just got a really cheap camera and you don't
Speaker:know anything about photography,
Speaker:if you go outside and go into a shady spot,
Speaker:don't use direct light,
Speaker:but go into a light,
Speaker:a spot where the light is diffused or on a cloudy
Speaker:day, you'll get the best photos.
Speaker:And for photo tips,
Speaker:I think the most overlooked thing is a,
Speaker:I would recommend that people learn about something called white balance,
Speaker:which really affects how true your colors come out.
Speaker:So for example,
Speaker:if you have a photo that has a white background,
Speaker:you'll frequently see on Etsy and other platforms that the background
Speaker:looks slightly gray or slightly pink or orange or blue that's
Speaker:because the white balance is off.
Speaker:And a lot of people will try to correct that by
Speaker:brightening the photo,
Speaker:but it doesn't fix the white balance because the colors are
Speaker:still off and the photo then looks overexposed.
Speaker:So if you learn about something called white balance and learn
Speaker:how to edit that,
Speaker:that will really serve you well,
Speaker:Wonderful, great advice.
Speaker:So you've made the sale,
Speaker:you've got the product now you're sending it out.
Speaker:Do you do anything special with packaging or do you include
Speaker:anything special so that you retain a customer and they remember
Speaker:you for the future?
Speaker:That's what I'm trying to get to with that?
Speaker:Yeah. One of the things that I did when I decided
Speaker:to start treating my hobby as a business,
Speaker:as I rebranded,
Speaker:I went ahead and I trademarked my business name and had
Speaker:packaging made to reflect that name and to kind of an
Speaker:overall feel and brand.
Speaker:And so I have branded boxes that I put all my
Speaker:items in and I tie them all like with a bow.
Speaker:So a customer feels like she's receiving a gift when she
Speaker:gets her item in the mail.
Speaker:I think that first impression really is everything.
Speaker:And it really does influence the customer's first impression of the
Speaker:actual product as well.
Speaker:I include a handwritten note that it has the customer's name
Speaker:and any specific facts that I know about the customer.
Speaker:For example,
Speaker:I'll say,
Speaker:I hope your wife loves her present or something little like
Speaker:that, or best of luck on your big day for wedding
Speaker:orders. And I sign every,
Speaker:every card that goes with the order.
Speaker:Wow. So a real personal touch for sure.
Speaker:Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker:It's very important that the customers make that personal connection with
Speaker:you. Tell us about Etsy's backend in terms of once an
Speaker:order comes in,
Speaker:is it pretty smooth in terms of you knowing that there's
Speaker:an order in the shop and then fulfilling the order with
Speaker:capturing all the information that you need to send an order
Speaker:out? Absolutely.
Speaker:There's always room for improvements and I would have many suggestions
Speaker:for Etsy on how to improve it,
Speaker:but as it stands now,
Speaker:it is very,
Speaker:very usable.
Speaker:It's easier than other platforms.
Speaker:And if you make use of all the tools that they
Speaker:provide you with it,
Speaker:it's very,
Speaker:very easy.
Speaker:We have a great app that notifies you on your phone.
Speaker:Every time you make a sale or someone sends you a
Speaker:conversation. And in fact,
Speaker:I've become so dependent on it.
Speaker:The other day,
Speaker:my husband and I were out during business hours and I
Speaker:left my phone at home and I made him install all
Speaker:my Etsy apps and my email,
Speaker:the top of my shops.
Speaker:Again, it's almost useful to a detriment because I'm out there
Speaker:doing something fun and I'm still tied to my husband's phone.
Speaker:Yeah. Well,
Speaker:you're a true business woman.
Speaker:That's why it never quite leaves your mind,
Speaker:you know,
Speaker:even when you're off doing other things,
Speaker:that's for sure.
Speaker:So, all right,
Speaker:Angela, I want to move on now into our reflection section.
Speaker:This is a look at you and how you manage and
Speaker:work through your day and,
Speaker:you know,
Speaker:see what types of things you call upon to be successful.
Speaker:If you were to think of something that you do innately
Speaker:that just comes because you've had this trait for your whole
Speaker:life, what would it be that helps you as you manage
Speaker:your day?
Speaker:It's a combination of being a natural problem solver.
Speaker:And that might come from my training as an attorney and
Speaker:also resourcefulness.
Speaker:You know,
Speaker:I truly believe that there is a solution to every problem
Speaker:and I'm constantly thinking of ways to make things better.
Speaker:And I welcome those challenges.
Speaker:I don't Sharpe from them.
Speaker:In fact,
Speaker:usually the harder something seems to me,
Speaker:the more determined I am to overcome it,
Speaker:or find a better way to do it or end in
Speaker:a better situation.
Speaker:Then I started,
Speaker:Do you ever get flustered?
Speaker:I do.
Speaker:I do get flustered.
Speaker:And that's the biggest challenge to me has been managing growth.
Speaker:And there's always been a solution for the challenges that I've
Speaker:faced. It's not always the solution I want.
Speaker:There's always been a solution to it.
Speaker:Wonderful. And when you think of your day,
Speaker:you've already talked now about the Etsy app and how important
Speaker:that is,
Speaker:but is there any other tool that you're using you call
Speaker:upon almost every single day to help manage the business?
Speaker:Yeah, There's a software called crafty base that is excellent in
Speaker:for inventory management.
Speaker:And I think it's useful,
Speaker:especially for small-scale crafters,
Speaker:because what it does is that not only does it tell
Speaker:you what inventory you have in stock,
Speaker:but it will tell you the amount of inventory that you've
Speaker:used and the cost of each parcel of that inventory that
Speaker:you use to create a product.
Speaker:And it's a good habit to get into,
Speaker:right from the beginning to keep track of what assets are
Speaker:going out and buy assets.
Speaker:I don't just mean cash.
Speaker:A lot of people in the beginning will only look at
Speaker:cash and cash out,
Speaker:but what you really need to look at,
Speaker:especially when you're designing products is how much things cost per
Speaker:product and software that helps you manage that like crafty base.
Speaker:It's really essential for you to look at that on a
Speaker:day to day basis to make sure your pricing right,
Speaker:and to make sure that you're actually making a purchase.
Speaker:Absolutely. And I think this is a hole that a lot
Speaker:of people go down because they're not looking at what the
Speaker:costs are.
Speaker:And some of those hidden costs,
Speaker:like if you were to purchase locally,
Speaker:you have to drive and go get it.
Speaker:If you're having a thing shipped in,
Speaker:there's all the shipping costs.
Speaker:In addition to just the hard flat-out,
Speaker:this is how much,
Speaker:one piece of whatever the product is.
Speaker:So crafty base is that a computer-based program.
Speaker:So someone could Google and find it online.
Speaker:Yes. I believe they're based in the UK and barely out
Speaker:of beta,
Speaker:but they work great.
Speaker:And they're very responsive to customer feedback.
Speaker:How long have you been using them?
Speaker:Probably for a year.
Speaker:Okay. And is there a book that you've read lately that
Speaker:you think our listeners could find value in?
Speaker:And it's so specific,
Speaker:it's something called the complete metal Smith by Tim McCrite.
Speaker:It's basically considered the Bible for metal Smiths.
Speaker:You often go and resource books just to continue,
Speaker:not only,
Speaker:you know,
Speaker:your business development,
Speaker:but also on your craft to figure out what's the newest
Speaker:and latest,
Speaker:whether there's new techniques,
Speaker:new materials,
Speaker:people are using all that kind of thing.
Speaker:I hate to say this because my husband's an English major
Speaker:and he's an avid reader,
Speaker:but for business people,
Speaker:everything is online these days.
Speaker:So much of my,
Speaker:my development has been through YouTube and other resources,
Speaker:blogs posted by other crafters,
Speaker:the Etsy forums and the dynamic nature of online content makes
Speaker:it the best resource,
Speaker:Very accessible as well.
Speaker:Of course,
Speaker:which leads me right into what I always like to talk
Speaker:about next gift biz listeners,
Speaker:just as you're listening to the podcast today,
Speaker:you can also learn through audio books.
Speaker:I've teamed up with the audible and you can get an
Speaker:audio book to learn about whatever aspect it is that you
Speaker:feel you need further development on,
Speaker:on your business for free.
Speaker:All you need to do is go to gift biz,
Speaker:book.com and make a selection.
Speaker:Okay. Angela,
Speaker:I would like to invite you now to dare to dream.
Speaker:I'd like to present you with a virtual gift.
Speaker:It's a magical box containing unlimited possibilities for your future.
Speaker:So this is your dream or your goal of almost unreachable
Speaker:Heights that you would wish to obtain.
Speaker:Please accept this gift and open it in our presence.
Speaker:What is inside your box?
Speaker:This sounds like a cop-out,
Speaker:but I feel like I would want it to still contain
Speaker:that unlimited possibility,
Speaker:even though on a day to day basis,
Speaker:I'm a very goal oriented person.
Speaker:I don't always like to know what's going to ultimately happen
Speaker:when I was very little.
Speaker:I decided that the goal for my life was to never
Speaker:know where I would be or what I'd be doing in
Speaker:10 years.
Speaker:And while on one hand,
Speaker:that sounds really scary.
Speaker:What it really meant is that I would always have the
Speaker:skill or the resources to change gears if I wanted or
Speaker:needed to,
Speaker:to the point where,
Speaker:you know,
Speaker:the possibilities would truly be unlimited even in the,
Speaker:whether it be the near or the far future.
Speaker:So I'm not sure if that's really an answer to the
Speaker:question, but that's,
Speaker:that's kind of how I feel.
Speaker:Well, you get any gift you want.
Speaker:So it's really interesting how you've been talking about this because
Speaker:you sound so,
Speaker:so comfortable with the unknown.
Speaker:You'll figure it out,
Speaker:you know,
Speaker:whatever comes to you,
Speaker:you'll find the solution.
Speaker:Resourcefulness. I talk about all the,
Speaker:how important that is,
Speaker:you know,
Speaker:because to seek out some answers and then figure it out
Speaker:once you've got all your information.
Speaker:And I would suggest that you're a pretty special person,
Speaker:because I don't think a lot of people can feel comfortable
Speaker:like that.
Speaker:So it's very interesting that that's your answer.
Speaker:And I think it's something for all of us to think
Speaker:about in terms of how that could apply to our lives.
Speaker:Just being able to just be out there and whatever comes
Speaker:comes, and then you get to have lots of nice surprises,
Speaker:Angela, to putting it in that context.
Speaker:I absolutely agree that being an online retailer is your primary
Speaker:occupation. You absolutely have to be comfortable with the unknown and
Speaker:what you really just need is the confidence and the resources
Speaker:and the motivation to know that whatever happens,
Speaker:you can come out of it as a success.
Speaker:All right.
Speaker:So now I know we have sparked interest with all of
Speaker:our listeners.
Speaker:If there was one place that you would direct people to
Speaker:go to look at your product,
Speaker:where would that be?
Speaker:It would probably be my Etsy shop.
Speaker:It's bright smith.etsy.com.
Speaker:Perfect. And give biz listeners.
Speaker:You also know the show notes page will be connected up.
Speaker:So if you are out and about and didn't capture any
Speaker:of the information we've been talking about,
Speaker:just jump over to gift biz on rapt and look at
Speaker:Angela's show notes.
Speaker:Page the links to all of her other sites will be
Speaker:there as well.
Speaker:Alrighty, Angela,
Speaker:thank you so so much for taking time today and sharing
Speaker:with us your information.
Speaker:This has really been super special.
Speaker:You've provided some information that I didn't know before a great
Speaker:look at Etsy and your whole journey with your career.
Speaker:I wish you all good things and continued success with your
Speaker:business and may your candle always burn Bryce.
Speaker:Thank you.
Speaker:Learn how to work smarter while developing and growing your business.
Speaker:Download our guide called 25 free tools to enhance your business
Speaker:and life.
Speaker:It's our gift to you and available@giftbizonrap.com
Speaker:slash tools.
Speaker:Thanks for listening and be sure to join us for the
Speaker:next episode.
Speaker:Today's show is sponsored by the ribbon print company,
Speaker:looking for a new income source for your gift business.
Speaker:Customization is more popular now than ever Grande your product from
Speaker:your logo or print a happy birthday,
Speaker:Jessica Gribbin,
Speaker:to add to a gift right at checkout,
Speaker:it's all done right in your shop.
Speaker:We'll cross studio in seconds.
Speaker:Check out the ribbon print company.com
Speaker:for more information after you listened to the show,
Speaker:if you like what you're hearing,
Speaker:make sure to jump over and subscribe to the show on
Speaker:iTunes. That way you'll automatically get the newest episodes when they
Speaker:go live.
Speaker:And thank you to those who have already left a rating
Speaker:by subscribing rating and reviewing help to increase the visibility of
Speaker:gift biz.
Speaker:On-ramp it's a great way to pay it forward.